As mentioned here, I tried a thermogenic weight loss OTC drug recently. I decided last night, after 2 days on Cytolean , to halt use of it for the time being. It had a lot of caffeine in it that made me jittery, hyper, and cranky. I also noticed dehydration effects, with my MCLs, LCLs, knees, and ankles screaming. My workout yesterday seemed decent, with good energy levels, but the joint and ligament pain didn't seem like a good tradeoff. I might try it again after the holidays one my joints and ligaments feel better.